tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC March 29, 2017 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
>> in charge of health care decisions that lower costs for families. >> as jimmy put it perhaps more of a moov than a shaker. thank you for being here with us. good night from new york. as you might imagine, as you might be able to tell from my composure right now we have a big show tonight. we have here tonight live the former secretary general of nato. very much looking forward to that interview and discussion. we have congressman adam schiff tonight the top democrat on the house intelligence committee. we will be talking to him tonight as it is increasingly becoming the wisdom in the house intelligence committee into trump in russia is over, not that it's over because it's complete but it's over because it has blown up.
in fact, the whole house intelligence committee seems to have ceased to function entirely even beyond doing that investigation. they're apparently no longer meeting as a committee to do business other than the trump-russia investigation. they apparently stopped all together. it appears like the investigation itself is done. now, i will tell you, congressman schiff disagrees with that assessment. he disagrees with that common wisdom. he is, as i mentioned, the top democrat on that committee. he is in a position to know what they're doing. but honestly, it is starting to feel like the trump white house has effectively shut down that part of the investigation into what happened between them, the trump campaign and russia last year, while russia was mounting its attack on the united states. it's obviously a big political risk. potentially even a big legal
risk for the white house to sabotage or undermine an official congressional investigation into the white house. the fact they were willing apparently to take that risk, implies they believe they really had something to fear from that investigation, that it was worth getting caught in a cover-up potentially, worth potential obstruction of justice. it was worth that because they believed they really had to stop that probe from going forward. it seems clear honestly the administration would have nothing to fear from the chairman of that committee who after all was part of the trump campaign and trump transition official himself. i don't think they're worried about devin nunes. that means if the white house has played a role in shutting down or trying 0 shut down the house intelligence committee investigation of this matter, then the reason they were so afraid of it, the man they were so afraid of in that investigation wasn't devin nunes, it was the other senior person running that investigation, who didn't work for them, who was not part of the trump campaign. that would be the top democrat
on that committee, adam schiff, if the white house really did shut this thing down, if the common beltway wisdom is correct and the house investigation committee into russia is over and shut down if the white house had any role in achieving that outcome, it's because they were afraid what adam schiff was going to do. adam schiff is here tonight live. it's a big show tonight. meanwhile, today was the start of the biggest rupture in europe, since the end of world war ii. the british people voted narrowly last summer to leave the european union. today, britain's represent tich at the eu presented the formal paperwork that starts the process of the uk getting out of europe, getting out of the european union. the president of the european union ended with a statement that included these four words, we already miss you.
it will take britain four years to fully extract itself from europe financially and legally. it's an unprecedented process. nobody knows how it will end up in the details. we know the bottom line result. it will result in a smaller europe and a question whether the process will result in a smaller uk. this is a big deal for us, right? this is our closest ally in the world, at least the closest ally in the world that doesn't touch our own borders. the uk prying itself out of europe will have the effect of breaking up europe and may break up the united kingdom as well. scotland says it will vote again whether scotland should be its own independent country. the scottish independence referendum did not pass a couple years ago. if scotland gets to vote on it again knowing a yes vote to be an independent country this time, this could be their only
option to stay in europe while the rest of the uk leaves something scotland really wants. scat land voters said they did not want to leave the uk even though europe as a whole voted yes. that puts more pressure than ever before of this centrifical process of scotland breaking away becoming its own kingdom. then northern ireland. as you know, it's divided in two. most is the independent nation of ireland happily staying part of the european union. and the six counties that make up northern ireland those six counties are part of the uk and like scottish voters wanted to stay in the eu, voters in northern ireland wanted to stay in the eu, too, but outvoted. if northern ireland stays part
of the uk they will be forced out of europe against their will and out of the eu against their will. the border between ireland and the six counties in the north will require that border to be fortified or built up to whatever extent is required by a border between the european union and non-european union country. i'm sure the building up of that border will be great in northern ireland. i'm sure that won't be controversial at all. >> what britain did today in prying themselves off europe and splitting up the european union that is adding a whole new impetus, dynamic to the age-old bloody question whether northern ireland should stay part of the uk or six counties in the north should be part of the united front. troubles anyone? >> the two national institutions
that reshaped that part of the world after world war ii so we wouldn't have another world war again as quickly as world war ii had followed world war i, the two multi-national institutions that were created and staved in fighting off world war iii thus far the two organizations that have done the work in stopping world war iii are nato and the european union. all things considered, forever you factor in military power and economic power and international influence, i think it's fair to say the uk is the strongest and most important cornerstone member of the european union. now, as of today they are starting the process of getting out. it's happening. that alone is profoundly disstabilizing in lots of way to the uk itself probably our greatest ally on earth. we are also about to have two
hugely important elections in other cornerstones of europe. both germany and france are heading towards very very important national elections that will not just determine the immediate short term future of politics in those countries, determine whether or not europe splits apart entirely. the strongest antieuropean candidate in france is mauer ren lapin, the head of a party called the national front founded by her father in the early 1970s. for decades the front national ale has been the fascist party in france. he denies the holocaust, made a career accusing his political opponents of being secret jews. and about muslims being allowed to immigrant to france a position his daughter shares as she campaigns to be president of france now.
part of her campaigning to be president of france last week resulted in her taking a detour to the kremlin. a weird day. nobody quite knew where mauer ren lepin had gone for the day and suddenly turned up without warning for this meeting with vladamir putin, one-on-one. the russian government is essentially openly supporting the far right candidacy of her as she runs for president in france. russian banks have made loans of millions of euros during this campaign. today at their press conference on the senate intelligence committee investigation in the trump-russia. and senator burr said there was no doubt russia after interfering in our election was
interfering in germany and france. and this fascist candidate in france, it is possible the reason russia likes her so much because of her domestic politics and so right wing and forgive me racist. vladamir putin, i don't know how he thinks. he might see that as a feature not a bug. in st. petersburg, russia will be hosting something called the national russia conservative forum. they say they want to promote the establishment of a common constant acting russian european conservative elite group uniting the political and economic call elites in europe. one of these russian conservative forums russia has hosted in 2015 sponsored by a branch of his political party and in st. petersburg. that one attracted american far right racist fringe right characters like jared taylor a
prolific pseudo academic white supremacist. you might remember him from the alt-right gathering in washington, d.c. where everybody did the nazi salute and shouted heil trump. you know, they said it was hail trump. but with the stuff arm it was hard to read their lips and get that subtleties. regardless whether or not russia likes that whether or not that is the attraction russia likes maureen lepen. they like is if she gets france she will do her damndest to pry france outside as well. russia supports anything pulling apart institutions of the west. russia's overall global strategy
is to knock the united states down as many pegs as it can in terms of our global standing. they want to disrupt and divide and hopefully split apart russian alliances institutions that serve as a counterweight in the world and serve as define ing any sort of democratic liberal values western order. all institutions that support that russia sees them as the enemy. they will do anything to undermine them as best they can and when they have the momentum and advantage they will take it. that russian idea by defeating your adversaries by splitting them up, promoting divisions among them and within them, it seems almost ridiculous to think about it. that strategy extends to us in america in a very specific way. you may have heard about the newly energized current federation of the california
separatist movement? there have been low-key low profile california insurrectionsist movements for year, conservative parts of california that say california should split up and the liberal and urban and minority heavy part of the state should be its own thing and the conservative rural white part of california should become a southern idaho thing or something. that kind of thing has existed a long time. what's new in california is the surprisingly slick online organized progressive seaming effort that california as a whole should secede from the united states of america. i'm from california, my whole family lives in california. i know lots of people in california who have talked to me
half joking or not about how appealing this calexit idea is since donald trump was elected president. the leader of the organization that spearheaded that movement, the leader of yes california, he really does live in russia. he lives in siberia. last september, the yes california guy who conveniently lives in russia, the calexit guy and right ring separatists got invited to moscow for a kremlin funded event called the globalization of russia. look it up. you will signed links to the independent republic of california, with a link. and the calexited founder that the separatists office space is being loaned to him in moscow free of charge. he said he doesn't actually know who owns the office space, privately owned who can tell but
nice to have free office space for his california separatist movement he's running from russia. that is a ridiculous story, right? it is a ridiculous idea, cartoonish. but it's real. imagine if your goal was to take the united states down a few pegs in the esteem of the world in terms of global leadership and the way they looked up to the united states for help or advisor conceivably as exemplar of democracy and power, imagine if your goal was to hurt all of that, erode all of that, if you had a chance, even a slim chance hilarious cartoonish tiny chance of splitting off from the united
states, one of its 50 states on its own terms is the sixth largest economy in the world. you pry california off the united states, california has a bigger economy than france does. it would be nice to pry germany out of the eu. pry france out of the eu. the eu is splitting apart on its own. we'll do what we can to help but let's think big. theresa may is the british prime minister tasked with managing britain pulling out of the european union she is not the politics credited with the leaving. that goes to nigel, who spearheaded the brexit campaign and he has become famous for his frequent appearances alongside donald trump and trump tower at the white house. oddly, the day wikileaks held its press conference to crow about the fact they were releasing a devastating document dump experts say essentially
exposed the entire cyber arsenal of the cia, on that same day, nigel farraj was at the embassy of ecuador where wikileaks founder julian assange lives and gave his press conference that day. a buzzfeed director said he saw him and asked him what he had been doing? he said he couldn't remember what he had been doing inside that building. recently this past week nigel farage has been in california to promote the effort to california splitting from the united states or at least splitting itself in two. today, the republican and democratic senior members of that senate intelligence committee announced they have 20 people on their list they want to talk to for their investigation of trump and russia. they hinted former security advisor michael flynn and sally
yates are among those 20 people. they confirmed his son-in-law will be one of the people they speak to. and on the house side the house investigation may or may not be blowing up. we'll hear more on that from congressman schiff. the senate is going ahead, tomorrow, not something you want to miss if you're interested in this issue. one point about that, the last point i want to make. confirming in no uncertain terms, there is one thing the committee will not be looking at, the question of whether or not the russian attack is over, whether russia is still doing their thing, whether they are in fact collecting their payment from the trump administration now in exchange in their part throwing the election trump's way, that the committee is not going be looking at.
>> it changes the republican platform convention or the way the president refuses to criticize vladamir putin. is that part of what you are looking at? >> that's not in the scope of the investigation. i'll leave that up to you guys to report. yes, ma'am. >> yes, ma'am, next question. senate intelligence committee will not be looking whether or not this russian attack, russian campaign is over. in terms of what that committee is going to investigate, we all fully expect what the russian attack on our election was. i think our country doesn't necessarily expect but at least hopes that it will look whether russia had help pulling off that attack on our election, whether the trump campaign or any other american confederates helped them in their attack. we hope they will look at that, too, they say they will. they made explicitly clear today they will not look and not even consider questions whether russia's attack on the united
states is still under way. whether anybody who might have help them in that attack last year might still be helping them today to get what they want. >> as richard burr said today, he hopes the press will follow that question. that part is all on us now. congressman adam schiff is here tonight, the former secretary of nato is here tonight. stay with us. ♪ if you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's,
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a teeny tiny bit explosive. they will publish this tomorrow but have given us an exclusive first look tonight. you haven't seen this anywhere else. i will give you the top line polling result that i think will make the biggest headline. a two-part question. here's the first part. this is a national poll, a fst look at these new results. here's the question, quote do you think that members of donald trump's campaign team worked in association with russia to help trump win the election? turns out a plurality of voters says, narrowly, yes, i believe donald trump's campaign worked with russia to help him get elect. 44% of the country believes that. 42% does not. that's good to know. the follow-up. if it turns out -- if an investigation does turn up conclusive evidence the trump campaign colluded with russia to manipulate our election, do
voters have a clear idea of what should then happen next. turns out they do. this is the second part of that question. ppp asks, quote, if evidence comes out that proves conclusively members of donald trump's campaign team worked in association with russia to help trump win the election, should trump continue to serve as president or should he resign? answer, resign. the majority of the country, 53% says if he or anybody in his campaign worked to swing the election in his favor, donald trump should resign as president. so, at least for a majority of the country that would be a presidency ending development. as far as the investigations looking in this mess, there is quite a considerab national appetite for those investigations to keep going, keep digging. cbs news is also out with a new
poll today, not exclusive as they have published this already. cbc asked voters whether the fbi should be investigating the president's ties to russia. respondents did the equivalent of screaming a collective yes into the telephone. two-thirds of the country, almost two-thirds, 63% thinks it is necessary and should keep going. while these investigations chug along at the fbi and in congress more-or-less, voters quite clearly have questions that they want answered, they want results and it sounds like they want dramatic results if these investigations turn up a worst case scenario answer. congressman adam schiff is the ranking democrat in charge of the investigation in the house. he says from his position at that committee, he has seen evidence he would describe as more than circumstantial, that the trump campaign did collude with russia in their attack on our election last year and congressman schiff will join us in a few minutes to help us answer those questions or which
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yesterday, the house intelligence committee was supposed to hold an open hearing including testimony from former intelligence director james clapper and john brennan on the right and former acting attorney general sally yates expected to testify about her notifying the white house the trump white house that then national
security advisor michael flynn had been lying publicly about the content of his communications with the russian government. it has been reported yates told the trump white house their national security advisor was compromised, meaning he was vulnerable to blackmail and therefore coercion by a foreign power. that's a bad thing for anybody in high government office. just today a long time state department employee was arrested and charged with having undisclosed and allegedly corrupt contacts with the chinese government. that person got arrested today at the state department. it's a really bad thing to have those kinds of undisclosed contacts with a foreign government if you're in the government. it's a national security disaster for somebody who has access to all the most sensitive national security and intelligence information in the government because they're serving as the national security advisor. sally yates was expected to
testify about that yesterday, what she brought to the white house, what she told them about the national security advisor and his contacts with russia. that was supposed to happen yesterday. the republican chairman cancelled the hearing and hasn't rescheduled it. the senate intelligence committee said they have a list of people they want to talk to for their trump investigation. before the press conference nbc news reported that one of the people they're trying to speak with is christopher steel, a former british officer, the author of the partially uncorroborated dossier of alleged dirt on donald trump that was such a salacious scandal when it was first published in january but now reportedly partially born out by subsequent investigations. the senators have not confirmed they are trying to get christopher steel to testify before their committee but the fact they want to have put a central allegation on the dossier.
the central allegation is that not only did russia attack the u.s. election last year, we now know they did, that russia did that with the knowledge of the trump campaign and the trump campaign promised in return they might do a few things russia might like, down play russia and ukraine as antipolitical issue in this country and agree to stoke divisions in nato, which ssia sees as its greatest adversary rin thworld. down play russia in ukraine and plan up things they like to yell at each other about. whether or not all nato countries are paying their fair share for the coast of that alliance. to be fair, lots of u.s. presidents have hit that issue with our nato allies from time-to-time. that said, none of them before now went as far as presenting the german chancellor with a
bill, a $372 billion invoice, when she visited the white house. but there were european reports last week that's exactly what our new president did when angela merkel paid her visit to d.c. european reports last week say trump gave her a bill for $372 billion for unpaid nato spending. the white house is denying it did any such thing to angela merkel. the reports raise the questions, right? how much is nato in the crosshairs right now? how much is nato potentially at risk and why? joining us for the interview tonight, the former secretary general of nato, former prime minister of denmark and the author most recently of the will to lead america's indispensable role in the global fight for freedom. mr. secretary general, i'm honored you took the time to be with us tonight. thank you for your time. >> you're welcome. thank you. >> from your five years leading nato, what did you come to
understand about russia's posture toward nato? what's their strategy when it comes to nato? >> their strategy is exactly what you have described. it is to split the western alliance and it is to insure that people have mistrust in democracy. when i am witnessing the debate the dispute across the atlantic, when i am following the debate here in the states, i think mr. putin has more-or-less achieved his goal. >> how vulnerable is nato, that alliance to the kind of splits you're talking about. obviously, there are always disagreements and points of contention to the closest of allies. the kinds of divisions and splits and sore subjects he apparently wants to push, how vulnerable is the alliance?
>> he cannot split the nato alliance. of course, it was a matter of concern when candidate trump raised doubts about the american commitment to defending all allies. after he was elected, he has appointed a security team which has reassured allies that the american commitment is unchanged, that's good. and furthermore, he has also provoked, i would say a valuable discussion about the european investment both economically and politically in the transatlantic pond. they understand europe that they cannot take the transatlantic pond for granted so now we have to reconsider how can the european country do more. >> i hear your analysis there but i feel there's an uncomfortable tension in part of it in that you seem to be saying
you are reassured by people other than the president in the u.s. government, even if you are still worried about the president himself, in terms of his approach to nato. is that essentially what you mean, that you still have concerns about him but not about his team? >> there will be a nato summit on the 25th of may. i would expect a clear signal from that summit where president trump will participate, that the american commitment to the alliance is unchanged but also that the european allies will contribute much more. when we listened to vice president pence, secretary of defense mattis and secretary of state tillerson, they have reassured the european allies about an unchanged american commitment. >> as britain breaks off from the eu in a process that starts today, a lot of people are foretelling the break up of
europe in a bigger way, people are looking forward to elections happening in other cornerstone eu countries. do you feel like those fears are overblown? the centrifical force we see operating on alliances like the eu if t nato itself, those things are as strong as are worried about? >> i have no doubts president putin opened a bottle of champagne after he learned about the brexit vote because it's in his interests to weaken the west on alliance. however, now, we have to listen to the will of the british people and get the best out of the divorce negotiations. i have no doubt the uk will now feel even more committed to nato and contribute even more to
european security. >> anders fogh rasmussen. former danish prime minister, former nato secretary general, thank you. >> thank you. >> we have another big interview tonight. congressman adam schiff joins us, lots ahead. stay with us. you totanobo's hurt,nd new car. but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™,
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>> did the white house know? the white house know about the intel before you were briefed about it. thank you, guys. i've answered all the questions over and over again. >> the house of the intelligence committee is a popular man these days, and i'm sure because he's a nice guy but no explanation for his middle of the night excursion to the white house last week to view secret documents from a secret source he then called a press conference to talk about the next day and ran back into the white house because he said he needed urgently to brief the white house what he had just learned at the white house the night before. until that makes sense, expect more scenes like this of him being chased down capitol hill hallways by inquiring reporters. here's a very simple part of it. the question of who let him in? who went bzz so he could open the gate? who cleared devin nunes to enter the white house grounds last tut
-- tuesday night? that is an answerering question the white house should be able to answer. monday this week, two days ago, the white house promised they would work on getting that information. it's now wednesday. they have not provided the information and reporters are starting to get ancy about it. >> do you have any information to live up to the commitment you made on monday to provide more detail how that happened in a process you just told us yet again is above board and totally appropriate? >> i don't have anything on that for you at this time. >> he you looked into it? >> i have asked preliminary questions and have not gotten answers yet. no, i don't have anything further on that. >> sean spicer not saying who let the intelligence chairman onto the white house grounds that night. that information is probably easy to find. you can't check white house visitor logs online the one ofs we got used to being posted by the obama administration and those have been offline since president trump took office. but the white house does
presumably keep a log. they know internally. michael isikoff says staffers are speculating documents may have been handed to devin nunes by a lawyer named michael ellis that previously worked for nunes on the committee and hired this month to work. and until we get the simple answer to a question like that the house intelligence committee investigation will remain basically on ice. still no date for this week's hearing supposed to feature testimony from acting attorney general sally yates and probably be no hearings at all until at least after the easter break. time to start getting ready for easter now, you guys. as of today, all nine members of the democratic committee have called on him tory 'cuse himself from the investigation.
it is tempting to feel like that investigation is dead and sevd should just pivot away from it and instead rest their hopes on the senate investigation. one person i'm sure who doesn't believe that, congressman schiff. thank you for joining us. appreciate you being here. >> good to be here. >> what can you do updating us on the status of your committee, the question everybody has on their mind whether or not this investigation is still live in the house of representatives? >> here's the situation and you certainly introduced interest the right way, we can't have a credible investigation if one of the members let alone the chairman is freelancing and can't have a situation where the chair goes to look at evidence and basically says, i alone can see this evidence and i will only share it with the president. not as if this is just keeping democrats out of the loop, that would be one thing but none of the committee members have seen this, none of us, democrats or republicans know exactly who he
met with or what he saw, we only have his representation. you just can't conduct an investigation that way. we certainly want to get back to the business of serious investigation. we have never stopped our work, not through this, but we're not going to stop our work. i do think it's important, as i said all along, this credibility being conducted in a nonpartisan way. now, i think we have this cloud over the investigation in the sense many people have raised questions is the chair truly impartial? is there some distance between the chair and the white house? until those questions are cleared up i don't know how much credibility our investigation is going to have. >> from a pure numbers perspective, senators burr and warner today said they have about 20 witnesses scheduled for their investigation. they have seven professional staffers working on this. can you tell us anything in
terms of the house side metrics like that for your committee? >> sure. we have probably a roughly equivalent number of staff cleared to work on this investigation, so the resources, although very small, frankly, on both sides of the capitol, are about the same being devoted to the investigation. our witness list is probably about the same size as that in the senate. i do think we ought to be making sure we go through all the documents we want and obtain the documents before the witnesses come in. we don't want to have the witnesses jammed on us before we're able to do the preparation for those witness interviews. but it's, i think, very much as you described or the senators described, same witnesses probably for the most part and the same staff resources devoted to it. >> congressman schiff, one of the terms that happened today was the chairman of your committee you called on to recuse himself in this
investigation, he took some shots at you and the other democrats on the committee. if you have just a moment, i'd love to get your response from the chairman if you can stick with us one more segment? >> sure. >> congressman adam schiff stays with us after the break. i moved upstate because i was interested in building a career. i came to ibm to manage global clients and big data. but i found so much more. ( ♪ ) it's really a melting pot of activities and people. (applause, cheering) new york state is filled with bright minds like victoria's. to find the companies and talent of tomorrow, search for our page, jobsinnewyorkstate on linkedin. search for our page, experience exciting offers on sales event is here. our most thrilling models ever. get up to $2,500 customer cash on select 2017 models for these terms. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.
said it appears that the democrats aren't serious about this investigation. he said, quote, as far as i know they have done very little to even look through the documents that the intelligence agencies have provided. i wanted to get your response to that and find out what you think he is talking about there. >> i'm not sure, rachel. and i don't want to get into a back and forth with the chair. i will say this. we have submitted witness lists to the majority. we offered the majority and for days we made this offer to try to get things started. and that is if they would like to bring directors rogers and comey back in session we are fine with that. if what they are trying to do is essentially prohibit sally yates from testifying publicly we are not okay with that. we think the public has the right to know what led up to the firing of michael flynn.
these are questions that ought to be aired publically and i don't think we ought to use the saying we want other witnesses in clod session and somehow we are prohibited from doing two things at once. let's schedule both hearings. it is certainly more than reasonable request and we are waiting to hear back from the chair. >> i know you are hoping for the best. i know you have been told you will meet with the chairman tomorrow. if things don't go well can you envision a scenario in which you and other democrats will hold unofficial public meeting that wasn't a hearing of that committee in order to have public testimony, do public questioning of somebody like sally yates? >> i think what is going to happen really regardless of whether the chairman recuss himself or he doesn't the investigation will go on. the only question is how credible will it be.
democrats are going to continue to work in a very straightforward way. we are going to call all the witnesses that we feel are relevant and appropriate and follow the evidence where it leads. if the majority walls off certain things we will be public about it. i imagine they will want to continue to call witnesses and move forward. i think to get back to the point you raised at the outset, one of the things the russians have done is they have used financial entanglement in europe to try to exert influence over business people and politicians. that should not be beyond the scope of our investigation. we need t look at that issue, as well. ion't tnk we ought to write off anything. some of the witnesses on our list do pertain to issues. why there was this opposition at the republican convention to an amendment that would have been in support of providing defensive weapons to ukraine. if that changed as a result of anything that investor acted or
other coordination we ought to find out about it. i do disagree with my senate chairman counter part i think these are within the scope of the house investigation. >> top democrat on the house intelligence committee. thank you for your time tonight. >> what he said about financial entanglements that is really important. and it is news that he said it. stay with us. we'll be right back.
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today two high ranking former aides/appointees of new jersey governor chris christie were sentenced to prison for bridge gate. the traffic nightmare dreamed up by christy administration. the former deputy chief of staff will serve 18 months in jail. the judge said this was and is about abuse of power. she called it a sad day for the state of new jersey. wasn't necessarily a sad day for chris christie. at the same time prison sentences were being dropped on his staffers chris christie was at the white house for his big debut on my staffers go to prison day governor christie got his photo-opat the white house and role working directly for jared kushner. did i mention governor christie
sent jared's dad to prison and now works for jared. that does it for us tonight. we will see >> rachel, remember when some people wondered why we were covering so much time on a traffic jam on a bridge that was so much more than a traffic jam on a bridge? >> in the alternate universe where nobody covered it, we would be talking about president christie in all likelihood now. >> exactly. it's amazing how so many people after all that of that, after everything that came out that. >> still had him in the presidential sweepstakes as if he ever could have possibly won a single state. >> no. exactly. and if that scandal was anything to do with traffic rather than being a gross new jersey style "the sopranos" episode of abuse of power. and people who got that from the beginning were riveted by that story. people who resisted that central truth of it never understood why